Episode 76: Confidence with Nicole Kalil
Nicole Kalil
Nicole Kalil was playing an Oscar-worthy performance as a confident leader at a fortune 100 finance company while on the inside she was having a totally different experience. Now she is a confidence sherpa, leading people to discover how to build their own confidence.
In this episode we talk about how to grow the trust in ourselves, letting go of the idea of being all things to all people, and why the hard moments are magic.
Website: www.nicolekalil.com
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Danielle McCombs 00:07
Nicole, welcome to the opposite of small talk. We are thrilled to have you here.
Nicole Kalil 00:09
I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you both for having me.
Danielle McCombs 00:13
So let's start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and how you came to do the work that you do.
Nicole Kalil 00:00
Yeah, so I always answer this question by saying like you I am many things to many people, right? So I am partnered on my husband, Jay, I'm a mom to my nine year old daughter, JJ. I'm a business owner or speaker, and now published author, podcast host, sister, daughter, friend, hotel, snob, wine and cheese enthusiast and a reluctant peloton. Writer. So there are lots of roles that I play, I think probably what's most relevant to the listeners today is I consider myself a student of confidence. And then that answers, the second part of your question is, you know, the work that I do, I worked at a fortune 100 finance company for the greater part of my professional career. And from the outside looking in, I looked like the confident, successful independent woman on the rise. And on the inside, it was a totally different experience. And it just kind of came to a head at one point where I realized that everybody saw me as confident. But not only did I not know what confidence was, I was certain I didn't have any of it. And so it kind of became my life's work for me at first, and then it took on a greater meaning to really uncover discover, what confidence is how we actually build it. I don't know if you've experienced this, but I felt surrounded by people telling me how important confidence was be confident, be brave, be bold, you know, all the things we throw at people. But nobody was telling me how I become confident. So it became No, this isn't like the sexiest quality, but I'm a how to girl, like, give me the step by step I want to know how to do something. And so that that was what really brought me to this point.
Danielle McCombs 02:17
And I would just think one thing of like, if everyone's saying, Oh, my gosh, Nicole is so confident, and you are not feeling that inside, it must be 10 times worse.
Nicole Kalil 02:27
Yeah, I mean, I felt like I was playing the Oscar worthy performance of my life. And the really sad part is I hadn't even thought to put myself in the leading role. And it became this, you know, facade, this, this role that I was playing for everyone else, and everything else. And I think the pain of the disconnect from how it actually was, you know, I spent most weekends incredibly lonely waiting for Monday morning to arrive. So I had like function or purpose again, because my work was my identity, I had an above average spending problem to go with my above average income, I, you know, it was all for show. And I think that made me feel, you know, the pain of inauthenticity. But also, it was exhausting. I was tired all the time, mentally and emotionally. On top of, you know, the normal, tired we all have when we're trying to work and build a life and rent a house and all that stuff. So in the
Kristy Olinger 03:35
pool, I love to that in your introduction, you said I am a student of confidence. And here we have you on our podcast as the expert to tell us all about how to build confidence. I just I love that. That framing, that you're always a student, because that's something we really do subscribe to here.
Nicole Kalil 03:54
Yeah, I feel really awkward when people refer to me as an expert, especially with the topic at hand. I think there are some things like if you take mathematics, I'm sure there are people who are experts in their field. But as it relates to confidence, I don't think confidence is something we arrive to plant a flag and they're like, Oh, I'm done, right? Like, that doesn't happen. So it's only ever always a journey. And I want to be very upfront that I am on the journey alongside anyone and everyone else. I jokingly say I'm a confidence Sherpa, like I'm climbing the mountain with you. But I might die to write. It is a journey.
Kristy Olinger 04:37
Well, I love that and you only have to be a couple steps ahead to guide others. And so I love that you're out here doing this. Can you help ground us a little bit in maybe a definition of confidence?
Nicole Kalil 04:47
Yeah. So my definition of confidence is when you know who you are, own who you're not and choose to embrace all of it. So if we unpack that a little bit, the owning who Who you are part to me is about self awareness, self love, self appreciation, whatever you want to call it, it's an understanding of what makes you you, your unique abilities, your talents, your superpowers, your strengths, if you want to be boring about it, you know all the things that make us, us. Because if you think about it, realistically, for a second you are the only you there ever was or ever will be. And that is pretty damn special. So you know, I want to hone in on the knowing who we are the owning who are not peace, is about letting go of perfectionism, letting go of unrealistic expectations, letting go of people pleasing, and all the things that we especially as women, I think are getting the messaging that we need to be in order to be confident, and I found the exact opposite. Knowing who you're not meant for and who's not meant for you, knowing what your purpose is, and what isn't being aligned with your passions and being okay with you know, that that's not something I'm passionate about. There's so many ways that we can do this. But ultimately, what I'm trying to give us permission to do is let go of this idea that we're supposed to be all things to all people all the time. It's not possible. And frankly, it's draining and exhausting and led to the problem I experienced in that time in my career where it was all for show. So the owning who are not peace, and then the embracing all of it as I think the lifelong opportunity challenge, whatever you want to call it, this embracing of ourselves as we are for who we are, with the full knowledge and awareness and even commitment to our growth and ongoing development. So accepting us as we are and knowing we still have opportunity it is is ultimately what I'm trying to get out here. Now, if all of that is too complicated, I would simplify it to confidence is when you trust yourself firmly and boldly. If you go to the etymology, the root of the word confidence if you go to how it translates in every different language, which I geeked out and actually went and did that, ultimately, confidence is about trust, firm, bold trust. So I like that distinction. It's not just oh, like I trust myself, it's like that firm and bold implies an action and movement almost, with this trust.
Danielle McCombs 07:31
What I'm getting from this too, is there's work to be done to get here. Because unfortunately, we all don't just trust ourselves because of all of the things right because of the society because of social media because of what other people tell us we should be doing. And so what do you think needs to happen in order to get to that place of trust?
Nicole Kalil 07:57
Yeah, so Danielle, first, I want to acknowledge what you said, because I think it's so important. I don't know that there's any way to prove or disprove this. So it's a personal belief, I believe that we are born trusting ourselves, I think we have an inner knowing and inner awareness of a purpose. And I don't mean that that means that we're like this destined for one thing, but I think we have value inherent worth and all those things. I think what happens is we become separated from it in our life, and whether that's because of well intentioned parents or family and friends, or because of bullies or exes, or bosses, or societal expectations, or religion, or I mean, like, fill in all the blanks, I think there are a lot of shoulds. And shouldn't, that we get taught in our life that ultimately separate us from the trust that we have in ourselves. So the opportunity and yes, you're 100% accurate, it is something we're going to need to practice and work on and, and unlearn and relearn how to do because for a lot of us, we are very separated. I know for myself, I was extremely separated from that trust. So how do we do that? There are lots of ways and I can get tactical, but I would encourage you to think about how you build trust with anyone. How do you build trust with the people in your life? How do they build trust with you? And there may be nuances and differences, we might the three of us even answer that question a little bit differently. But answering that question gives us insight into what's important to you. And then therein lies the answer and how you begin to repair and reconnect and rebuild that trust with yourself. So I'll give a few universal examples that seemed to run true for everybody. Keeping your commitments, we trust people more who do what they say they're going to do we trust people last who don't right. Um, and I think one of the things to be mindful here is we tend to be better about keeping the content As we make to other people, then we are the commitments we make to ourselves. And as it relates to the trust you have with yourself, I would argue that those commitments are even more important. So if you say you're going to prioritize your health by drinking more water or working out or eating healthy, we have to deliver on those commitments. If we want to build and grow the trust we have within ourselves, if we say we're going to take this risk or start this project or have this conversation, it's important that we deliver now, I'm not aiming for perfectionism, nobody keeps 100% of their commitments 100% of the time, but being somebody who delivers on those commitments we make to ourselves more often than we don't, is a good place to start. And another thing to add here is, is be careful not over committing, we have a tendency to do that. Communicating boundaries standing up for yourself, I think a lot of times when we think about that, we think we need to have the right words, right, we need to have the best response. And what I found is it relates to building trust in ourselves, even saying all the wrong things, or even just walking away, builds trust, because it's worse than the feeling after the fact where you're like, sure what it said something I can't believe I didn't, I can't believe I let that slide. And it, it damages, it tears a little bit of that trust we have for ourselves. I could go on forever. But those are some ideas, I think that we collectively could start with.
Kristy Olinger 11:36
I have like 50 Different things going through my head at this moment. And so I, I think you articulated this idea, but I want to say it again. Because I think it's what's given me confidence, you talked about keeping commitments to yourself. But there's also this element of giving yourself grace, if it's not 100%. And so it's so weird. To me, there's this saying that sometimes the opposite of a profound truth is often also true, right? So what we're saying is, you have to keep the commitments to yourself in order to build your confidence. But you also have to give yourself grace and be able to let it go. And so it's it's like a balance, it's hard.
Nicole Kalil 12:17
It's isn't that crazy. It's the both and right. And sometimes I think we live in a world or a society where they want it to be black and white. And there's so much that brings us
Kristy Olinger 12:29
to write our brains when black and white gray is difficult. So it's like it's hard to hold those two ideas at the same time.
Nicole Kalil 12:35
Yeah, I think with the giving yourself grace, one of the distinctions I make for myself is to communicate with myself in the same way I would anyone I love. So you know, I trust my husband, I trust my mom, my sister, because they've genuinely, you know, kept most of the commitments that they've made to me, but inevitably, will fall short with each other on a smaller a big thing here or there. And while it can sometimes be harder to choose to trust during those big tears and trust, I think that's where the real opportunity lies. I think on the other side of that we actually deepen the trust we have with each other. But most importantly, I found that I was giving a lot more grace and being a lot more generous with the people I loved in my life than I was with myself. And we should first and foremost be somebody that we love. There's a meme out there that I love that says we spend the bulk of our lives inside of our own minds, we might as well make it a nice place to be. And that really resonated with me.
Kristy Olinger 13:41
One more thing on giving yourself grace that I've noticed in myself is that I can only actually do that, if I've given it my best effort. So there have been times where I know that I haven't given my best effort in something. And then for me, it's a little harder for me to let go.
Nicole Kalil 13:59
But yeah, I think we all have our things in our areas in our belief center that where it makes it harder in certain events or certain occasions than others. But I would just submit to you that it's in those harder moments where the real magic happens, which I know is contrary to a lot of what we are taught or what we you know, a lot of us try to avoid all the hard stuff like failure, mistakes, fear, doubt. And I'm not saying I love any of those things. They suck when I'm in it too. But I've learned that those are those magic opportunities, where the only thing that's missing while I'm in it is the benefit of hindsight. And at some point, I can look back and see how this served to benefit my growth, my business, my whatever, but most importantly my confidence.
Danielle McCombs 14:52
I love that idea of knowing when you're like in something and giving yourself the grace to say this sucks. Right now, but I know in a week, a month a year, it's all going to, like lead to something else. And if we can keep that in our minds, like the hard times, they're gonna come, but maybe they don't suck quite as bad.
Nicole Kalil 15:15
Yeah, well, and I think it's just again, that awareness and those moments of I don't know when how, but it is, this is going to work for good and in some way and holding on to that it does take a little bit of the suckiness away, but I don't know, I think this idea that if you're successful, then you're never experiencing pain or doubt. Or if you're confident, then everything goes according to plan, it's so incongruent with my experience in anybody I've ever spoken with. It doesn't make it less sucky, it just gives you something to tell yourself and somebody to focus on when you're in it. That's more positive, more productive, more empowered, then you know, what your brain wants to make up if left to its own devices.
Danielle McCombs 16:06
So there is a quote in the book that I absolutely loved. And we'd love for you to talk a little bit about it, which is true, confidence is quiet. insecurities are loud.
Nicole Kalil 16:19
Yeah, it's a good one. And one, by the way, that took me a while to wrap my head around, because I am generally a little bit of a loud person. And so I want to be clear, I don't mean volume, or even like standing up for yourself or whatever. What I'm trying to hone in on here is that confidence is an internal thing. And I think in a lot of environments, especially professional or like success environments, like athletics, things like that, we've come to mistake, ego, arrogance, even narcissism, in some cases as confidence. And so we look at it and go through it. And confidence is an internal thing, the only person who can truly say whether or not somebody has confidence is the person. And so what I've come to realize is the people who are trying to tell you and show you and prove to you how confident they are, how successful they are, or how much they have things figured out, are usually doing that to mask a whole host of insecurities. They're usually doing that because they're missing trust in some aspect, if not a lot of aspects of their life. When we trust ourselves. It's not that we don't show up or that we don't, you know, speak truth or even use our voices. It's just that it's not, it's not necessary. The trust is an internal thing. I hope I explained.
Kristy Olinger 17:54
Yeah, let me say it another way, and just how I was interpreting it, when you're confident you don't have to over explain yourself, like you don't have to explain yourself at all you can. But it's not like, it's for you.
Nicole Kalil 18:07
Exactly. And I think on that note to confidence is not needing to compare yourself to anyone at all. Confidence is, you know, not needing to prove or show or, you know, again, some of what I think we see a lot out there that we're misinterpreting as confidence when it's really something else. Yeah.
Danielle McCombs 18:31
Yeah, I think a lot of if you just want to relate it back to like, your story from the beginning, was like, you talked about a spending problem, right? So it's like you had the fancy bag and the fancy car and all of that stuff. And it looks like from the outside, like, Oh, she's got it all together. Yeah. And so I think there's a lot of that, but and the overexplaining or the feeling, and I feel sometimes I wrestle with this myself. Because in a conversation or in something where I feel like, this is my truth, and that's it. Like I don't want to go into a debate about it. I don't want to have to prove it to anyone else. And so sometimes I sit back and don't share everything, but it's because it I don't feel like it needs to be and then is it? Am I insecure? And I feel like my feelings don't matter. And I don't think that's what it is. I think that it's I don't need to yell it in your face, because I'm good with it.
Nicole Kalil 19:25
Yeah, and again, I think you're the only decider and what you're doing is so good is checking in with yourself. Why is this my approach? Is it because of fear or doubt or insecurity? Or is it because I feel great about what I think or believe and I don't need to shove it down somebody's throat or prove it or whatever. I will tell you, you know, I have this sort of argumentative side. And I had to really check in with myself still do often and am I trying to prove a point? Am I trying to convince somebody Am I trying to get them to see that? I'm right Because if so I'm usually not coming from a place of confidence. Lots of other places where I'm coming from and that but anyway, yeah.
Kristy Olinger 20:11
So can we take a moment to distinguish the difference between confidence and competence?
Nicole Kalil 20:17
Yes, yeah, one of my favorite topics. So what I learned in my research is that women are over rotating towards competence. And I'm going to talk specifically in a professional setting, because that's where most of the research is coming from. And so what that means is that I need to get, you know, the designations, do the research, have all the answers, check all the boxes, basically, I need to prove or show in some way that I know what I'm doing. Whereas men are over rotating towards confidence, which is, you know, in its best form, I trust myself, I know that, I'll figure it out as I go, or you know, that I am the right fit for this opportunity, or whatever. And so in professional settings, we're seeing that women are going for opportunities, raising their hand applying for positions or jobs, unless they feel they meet 80 to 100% of the criteria where men are going forward if they meet 40, to 60%. And so I don't, by any means thing, this is the only thing that's contributing to things like the wage gap, or, or not enough women in the C suite or at managerial levels. But it is a thing that's contributing, because if we don't put ourselves out there, we're missing some of these opportunities. Okay, so if competence, it needs to be proved, I think what's important to note is none of us can be competent at anything, when we're new at it. When you start something, a new job, a new business, you know, something that you've never done before, it is an impossibility to be competent at it. And so this isn't a chicken chicken or the egg situation, we know which one comes first, what we want is confidence on the road to competence. And I believe we have the opportunity to learn something from each other here, our male counterparts are relying on confidence, and then maybe not doubling down on their competence over time, women are doubling down on competence, but forgetting to choose confidence in the in those early times or when they're going for something new. And I think there's just that opportunity to find a balance of both, but it is very clearly confidence, choosing to trust yourself on the road to competence, which needs to be developed and takes time. And so, you know, sometimes people go, Well, how do I trust myself when I have no idea what I'm doing. And I always say, Well, you don't need to trust that you know what you're doing, you need to trust that you'll figure it out. You need to trust that at some point in time, you know, you'll get where you want to go, that's that the trust is in the space of the unknown, whereas so many of us want to know, we want to feel 100% Ready. And those types of things. And it just, it's, um, it can be problematic.
Kristy Olinger 23:15
Yeah, so this is a podcast. So listeners can't see this. But Danielle, and I have these knowing smiles on our face, because we talk a lot about growth mindset. And that's really what this is, it's your ability that your effort matters. And your effort makes a difference in your trajectory in life. So we are so aligned and excited about this. And like really want people to to have the confidence to choose the life that they want. So I'm loving the topic and loving the integration with growth mindset, because it's made all the difference for both Danielle and I and sort of transforming our lives.
Nicole Kalil 23:53
Yeah, I would add to confidence is trusting yourself. But I've yet to meet a confident person who doesn't have a growth mindset. It's sort of this combination of I'm good where I'm at. And there's so much opportunity, and I trust myself that I'll get where I want to go. It's that most and we were talking about earlier.
Danielle McCombs 24:12
Exactly. It's trusting in your ability to learn. So I know that the day one of a new job, I absolutely do not know everything that I need to know. But I have the ability to learn it. And that is the most important part of that, I think. Yeah, and
Nicole Kalil 24:29
I live in worst case scenario, if you don't have the ability to learn it. And it's not the right fit for you. That's a redirect that's a one door closes so another door can open. That's a lesson that's a gift. That's an opportunity. We get to choose how we interpret the events in our life. We are the meaning making machines of what's going on around us and I just think one of the opportunities we have in trusting ourselves in being growth oriented and in choosing a good mindset is to choose an interpretation that empowers and is productive and and gets us. So I think sometimes people think, Oh God, if I trust myself, and it doesn't work out, that's the worst case scenario. And I'm like, if you dress yourself and doesn't work out, then you trust yourself again. You keep going until you get to where it does.
Kristy Olinger 25:18
Yeah, that's so true. You know, the other idea along the same thought that was helpful for me to learn in the last couple of years, is this concept of the body of all knowledge, that if you think about all there is to know in the world that there's like these concentric circles, and the teeniest tiniest one is the things that you know. And then outside of that are the things that you know, that you don't know. And then there's an entire universe of information that you don't even know that you don't know. And so when you realize how vast knowledge is, you recognize that you will always be learning throughout your entire life, and it kind of releases the pressure to know everything, because you realize it's not possible, and nobody does. And then it enables you to be more curious and ask more questions. So that's just a really relieving thing to know.
Nicole Kalil 26:13
Yeah, Kristy, that is so good. And I would put this in the category of the owning what you're not right. Like, I am not an expert on on almost everything. You know, I was so much I don't know, to your point and being okay with that.
Kristy Olinger 26:30
Say more about owning what you're not?
Nicole Kalil 26:33
Yeah. So, I mean, again, there are so many ways to do this. With thinking about all the things that you don't know, one of the things I've observed confident, people say and I've learned to say more, the more I've grown, my confidence is I don't know. I'm not either I'm not the expert, and I don't want to be, or this is not information I care to know, or hey, that's a great question. I'd love to learn more about that. What do you know, or like, there's just so much opportunity, and in doing that, and all aspects of her life. So for example, as a mom, I have one daughter, I could fill books, of all the things I didn't know about being a mom and all the things that I wasn't as a mom. But the opportunity was to trust myself, this child came through me not by accident, so I'm must be the right person to be her mom. So how do I do that? How do I trust myself? So I'm not a Pinterest Mom, I'm not work inside the home? Mom. That's not the choice that I made. I'm not the most patient mom. I'm not. But I am her mom. Right? So I can think about all the things that I'm not. And I can choose to feel really guilty or shameful or whatever about that. Or I can just choose to own. That's not the mom, this little girl got, she got this mom. So how do I be the best mom, knowing who I am owning who I'm not embracing that and bring that to her tiny little table, right. And that's not to say that I'm the best mom for all kids. I know that too. So like I try really hard to not offer parenting advice unsolicited, or even solicited, sometimes, I think I'm the owning who are not is so big, and it covers so many aspects of our life. And it's so missing. And we go on social media. And it's like, all of a sudden, everybody's an expert and everything you think about the pandemic and everybody knew what the right thing to do and tell everybody else. And I'm like, what, where's the expert who's like, we have no idea what's going on, based on the fact that this is new, and it's evolving, and we're constantly getting new information. And we're, this is the best information that we have, or the best suggestion we have with the information that we know, but it's probably going to change. Like I would have trusted that person and follow them all day long. But like all of a sudden, everybody's pandemic experts and whatever. I don't even know the medical term like, right, how about we just say I'm doing the best I can for myself and my family. You're doing the same, I can respect that even if we totally disagree on how to do that. But none of us now not
Danielle McCombs 29:15
at that was the part of the pandemic that drove me crazy that everyone was looking for certainty in a time where the people who were the experts also had no idea. No one had ever been through this before. And that drove me crazy when everyone was like, well, they don't know what they're, you know, like, they said this, this has to be this way. And it was like nobody knows. And so if we could all just like, take a collective breath. And we'll figure it out together and we have right and just the the need for certainty, or the need for not being able to have somebody say, oh shit, I don't know what I'm doing.
Nicole Kalil 29:52
Well, and the lack of willingness to own what we're not right to just be like, I don't know, right? I just I want to I'm just doing the best I can here. And I'm, and I'm not so many things I'm, I'm not a teacher, I'm not a medical expert, I like the environment I'm not their environment was chock full of the I'm not are owning who are not opportunities. And it was really scary. And it made it really obvious how uncomfortable so many of us are with this idea of owning what we're not.
Kristy Olinger 30:32
So I just have to say, Nicole, your example around motherhood is one that resonates with me a lot. I'm a working mom. And I often feel out of place around other mothers just in terms of they think about things like way differently and in more depth than I do. And so I've had to really do a lot of internal like, thinking and reconciling that it doesn't mean that they're a better mom. It's just different. I just I mom differently. Yeah, I appreciated that example. So let's can we, your your book, that I love the title validation is for parking. Can you tell us a little bit? Can we talk about validation and its relationship to confidence?
Nicole Kalil 31:23
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first, the title, you know, kind of came at the end of a four hour session, when I was at my snarky guest, right? And so that that title was designed to be authentic, and also to like, catch the reader's attention. But it has sparked a lot of conversation about where does validation fit in, as it relates to confidence because it does feel good. And so here's where I've sort of gotten to with it. I'm not saying that validation, complements success, well behaved children being super healthy, or fitting into a certain size or feeling attractive, or whatever you want to fill in the blank with. I'm not saying that any of those things are bad, I recognize they feel good. What I'm saying is they are not confidence. And I'm trying to separate the two. And so if you need validation, if you need somebody to come along and say you did good, or you're good at this, or good at that, if you need that in order to trust yourself, then your focus is on the wrong place. And it's probably not confidence building at all. In fact, you'll end up becoming addicted to that thing, in this case, validation, right? So you'll feel good temporarily, because somebody's validated you and that feels awesome. But then it'll go away. And then all of a sudden, what do you need, you need another person to come along and validate you, and then another person, and then now you're a validation junkie. And that cannot be confidence, there's just no way you can convince me that that's what confidence looks and feels like. I think we're the alternative. And what I'm really trying to support women with thinking differently about is this concept that we trust ourselves. And that's what confidence is. And then yes, it's going to feel good when somebody comes along and acknowledges it or has something good to say, I'm not suggesting that that's bad. I'm just suggesting that that's not what brings you confidence. Confidence isn't going to come to you from any external source, no one or nothing is walking around holding on to your confidence for you. And so, again, it was kind of a snarky title. I'm not suggesting that validation, or compliments, or success, or any of those things are bad things. I am suggesting that if you need those to feel confident, if you need those to trust yourself, then it's not confidence at all. And that's where the problem lies. So I always say, confidence is the cake validation. And all that stuff is icing on the confidence cake.
Danielle McCombs 33:58
So that was one of my favorite parts of the book of where you gave all of the places that your confidence may be. And it's in none of those places, right? It's not a Where's Waldo book. It's not in your parents pocket. It's not in your boss's pocket. It's not in your kid's pocket like it is within you. And if you're constantly searching for it from someone else, you're never going to find it in your own pocket. Yeah.
Kristy Olinger 34:24
Okay, so this makes me think about parenting. Right? So I have a daughter, I have one daughter, that's nine and a daughter. That's 13. And now I know that I can't give them confidence. It's not going to come from me. But do you have any thoughts on like ideas for raising confident children?
Nicole Kalil 34:45
I sure do. And I would also submit like I'm in the like, we'll see category my daughter is nine. You know, we'll see if what I think is going to work out. And I of course if If I could give my daughter confidence, I would like if it was something that I could just package up or I was holding, I would like, you know, all parents would we'd invest all the money, do all the things. And it's probably one of the more common questions that I get asked how do I, you know, ensure that I am raising confident children. So here are my thoughts, take them or leave him, pick what resonates with you. First and foremost, I believe that we all learn best by experience and observation, you can tell somebody how to do something, and they might retain a little bit, you can do it with them, right observation, and they'll learn a little bit more, or you can have them do it. And they'll learn the most via experience. Okay, so how do we raise confident children? I think first we demonstrate confidence, right? That they'll learn through observation. And I want to be very clear, this is not me suggesting you demonstrate perfection, Perfection is the enemy of confidence. So this is about demonstrating how you trust yourself. And that can be in the hard times, or even sharing when you feel fears and doubts and how you're going to choose to trust yourself in the face of those fears and doubts. So demonstrating confidence as a parent is probably the most impactful thing we can do for our children. Then the second thing is, is letting them experience the experiences that will ultimately help them build confidence. So letting our children fail, make mistakes, face fears, and doubts, and then helping them to uncover and discover what happens on the other side of those things. Now, within reason, right there, there's safety, things, health things that we as parents are all you know, very mindful about, I'm not saying you know, go let your kid loose on the highway and see what happens. I'm talking about, you know, the life events that happen, let them lose, Let them struggle, let them and I know, it's painful. So, so, so hard, but it's so important. And then also, I would add, focusing on the actions and the efforts that they take, at least as much of, if not more than the outcomes and the results. If we focus on grades and Scores and results in all that, we're going to create, you know, little people that think their value comes from that. And I think the value is in the effort they put in, did you try your best? Were you a good teammate, I saw you get up after you fell down. I was so proud of you for that. Even then asking them how they feel. How did you feel when that happened? Oh, I felt proud of myself. Because I, I want JJ to connect with the feeling she has about herself and those moments more than the feelings that I have about her because again, I and then the very last thing I'll say on this, and I could go on for days. One of the things that I do with JJ that I think has been really helpful for both of us, is for her to understand that my love is unconditional. And she doesn't need to work for it. She doesn't need to achieve for it. She doesn't need to prove for it. It's just there. So rather than saying I love you the most or I love you so much. I love you to the moon and back, which are lovely, beautiful sentiments. I judge and I've been doing this since she was really young. I asked her when does mommy love you? And the answer is always all the time. And then we play with it. Does mommy love you when she's working? Yes, she does. When does mommy love you when she's traveling? Yes, she does. Does mommy love you when she's frustrated? Yes, she does this mommy love you when she's pooping. Because it was all the rage when she was seven or eight years old. Right? Like, nothing is funnier than poop stuff. Yes, she so we we would play with it. So she understood that I loved her all the time. Even when I was disappointed even when I was frustrated, you know, so I can be frustrated, we can be upset with each other. The Love doesn't go anywhere. She doesn't need to work for that. But the rest of it, you know, is separate. So if you read the book, the beginning, the dedication is the answer. The question will always be all the time and that's Oh, I love me so important.
Kristy Olinger 39:27
I mean, Danielle Nicole is a girl after my heart with the very actionable items that I can now focus on.
Danielle McCombs 39:35
Yes, yeah. And that's the beauty of this book is at the end of every chapter. It's like, let's recap what we talked about and here are the things you can do. So it is a great actionable book for you know, if you're really looking to build your confidence and understand what that really means. I think Nicole gives us like real hands on tools. And Christy like you can make a checklist out of these tools and And you Yeah, you will love it. So I highly recommend that anybody get this book.
Nicole Kalil 40:06
I'll also add, I created a 40 Plus page workbook companion that goes along with the book. So it has all the exercises, and then some. And you can go through it at your own pace and use it to reflect, test, implement whatever you want. It's available for free on my website. And I can send it to you if you want to share it with your listeners. But I love a workbook. I'm a big
Kristy Olinger 40:30
logic geek. I'm a total geek. Well, I knew I knew when you were talking about the, the words and the deaf definitions of the words and where they came from, like, Oh, she's a word nerd. And she's for me, Sign me up. So,
Danielle McCombs 40:47
yeah, so Nicole, thank you so much for being here. This was an awesome conversation. Everyone go and buy validation is for parking, because I read it very quickly. And we'll be reading it again, because there were so many things to pull out of there. And that really resonated and will help me on my journey, to continue to build my confidence with Nicole as my Sherpa. So thank you so much for being here. This was awesome.
Nicole Kalil 41:13
Thank you both for having me, I appreciate the work that you're doing as well, you know, I could not be any more on board of growth mindset, and just the opportunity, we all have to dream bigger, risk, bigger, love bigger, all the things and I just go back to when we trust ourselves, we can do those things in a much deeper level. So thank you both for having me.
Kristy Olinger 41:41
Confidence with Nicole.
Danielle McCombs 41:44
Um, I really, really loved this conversation. And so many of the things she had to say, like I said, I ripped through this book in two days. And it was just a lot of actionable items. And I think the thing that I took away the most is about like true competence is quiet insecurities are loud.
Kristy Olinger 42:06
I think we've all known like those people at work that are like the loud and then you find out later once you get to know them like, Oh, they're not loud, because they're the smartest person in the room. They're loud because they're completely unconfident about where they are.
Danielle McCombs 42:22
Yeah. And I think that's so true of so many different things. And right, usually the loudest people are the ones who probably know the least, and are trying to compensate in some way. Yes. So I am feeling more confident in my choice to sometimes stay quiet,
Kristy Olinger 42:44
Yes, yes. Well, I, the thing that I appreciated so much was the conversation around parenting, because I've thought about that a lot. My husband always comments around my confidence that I have a lot of confidence. But I don't know how like I don't I've never really like thought through why that might be. So it's good to actually think about it and recognize that it comes within and then think about what are the things that I can do to support them as they're growing? That might be helpful. So I really appreciated that piece of the discussion.
Danielle McCombs 43:19
Yes. And she talks about that in the book. And while I was reading the book, I was thinking of you, because I know you've mentioned a lot of times before that sometimes you don't do all the things that other people might expect or make you you know, and I but you trust in the fact that you are a good mom to those two girls in the best way that you can be.
Kristy Olinger 43:40
Yeah, I think I'm getting okay with owning that. I'm not the PTO mom. Mm hmm. PTO? Yeah. Parent Teachers Association, PTA Association.
Nicole Kalil 43:52
PTA.
Kristy Olinger 43:52
I don't know we call PTO is really Yeah, parent teacher organization.
Danielle McCombs 43:58
Sounds like paid time off is what I was thinking. PTA is what I think of like the Parent Teacher Association.
Kristy Olinger 44:05
Yes, yes. Well, there's an acronym for everything. Apparently different everywhere else.
Danielle McCombs 44:10
So weird that I'm not up on that.
Kristy Olinger 44:12
All right. Well, that's it for this episode of the opposite of small talk. Thanks for listening. Stay, Giri. Got it. It was such a good recording. Everything was fine up until then. All right. That's it for this episode of the opposite of small talk. Thanks for listening.
Danielle McCombs 44:36
Stay curious and talk big